Aircraft effected by nukes?


Friday, January 27, 2006 - 15:32

I've been wondering if a nuclear weapon could destroy aircraft Puzzled . I feel that any aircraft within the nuclear fire ball should simply be turned to vapor Cool . I was really bothered with RTS games that neglected this, Earth 2150 for example and I think Empire Earth as well. I haven't seen anything about this in interviews or other forums for that matter. Anyway, should planes be effected or not? Should damage proximity be close or far from the center of the nuke? Discuss further.

If this has already been posted, I am sorry and didn't see any other forums relating to the topic.

Submitted by Pvt Campbell on Fri, 2006-01-27 16:03.
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This game is going to be a simulation so of course the nukes are going to be better then say Starcraft and Earth2150 nukes

CT also mentioned that the center of the nuke would have a vaporizing affect (this would hit a plane no matter how high they are) and then a slow but devastating shockwave would go out in a ring, maybe the planes will dodge this shockwave (i think it travels across the ground)


Submitted by No2117 on Sat, 2006-01-28 07:05.
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Pvt Campbell wrote:
vaporizing affect (this would hit a plane no matter how high they are)/quote]

 

The vaporising center is spherical and relativly small, there's an inital blast that doesn't do much damage, and a very large and slower moving shockwave that incinerates lots of things. Modern aircraft would stop working from a number of things

A) The EMP blast fries its circuits, making the robot braindead.

B) The heat makes things melt, the planes would turn into airborne slag piles.

C) I keep getting the impression that oxygen is either displaced, or thrown up. It's moved about but not combusted. However, there is massive turbulence around a nuclear blast. The mushroom cloud and the firery pillar is a clear visual demonstration of a thermal.

D) I still wonder what it'd be like to fly a glider over a mushroom cloud. 


Submitted by see_it_was_the_devil on Fri, 2006-01-27 16:27.
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Well i do believe that anything within the blast radius of a nuked area will be varopized. Will be cool to watch such a thing just for a cool screenie.
Evil Evil Evil


Submitted by Dano on Fri, 2006-01-27 22:06.
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Hehehe Smiling

Possibly i'm hopeful, could you see schools purchasing SupCom to demonstrate the effects of a nuke to surrounding object? Or is the caffeine i've had today effecting?

dan d:)


Submitted by Stan Hebben on Sat, 2006-01-28 13:39.
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Hmmm... reducing coffee usage might be the best solution available to you... although nuclear physics might be made more interesting this way! Smiling


Submitted by Strand on Sat, 2006-01-28 06:56.
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Would just like to point out that see_it_was_the_devil's avatar is none other than Radiskull and Devil Doll!

--------------

"Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right."  --  Isaac Asimov


Submitted by MadBoris on Fri, 2006-01-27 21:15.
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Gamespy mentions the fastest units can escape the nuke. So slow planes won't escape, nor will those that are not told to run away from the blast area.
So planes will be affected.
Damage proximity should be according to closeness of epicenter for the first blast (as it currently is), the second slow wave will be ultimately destructive but how far the second wave will go till it dissipates is a mystery.

~~
"The world moves, and ideas that were once good are not always good. In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." - Dwight D. Eisenhower


Submitted by RobJ on Sat, 2006-01-28 11:00.
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Quote:
So slow planes won't escape, nor will those that are not told to run away from the blast area.
Talking of which, it would be a nice touch if units were to flee the blast zone by themselves once a nuke is dropped. There would be no benefits whatsoever to staying in the area so it would be intelligent to try and escape the blast.


Submitted by MadBoris on Sat, 2006-01-28 11:38.
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Personally, I want more real time control. I want to actually control my troops, with less automation than some suggest.

I want to still feel that where I put my focus in the game makes an impact. Not only in building placement or unit selection, but in unit control during battle situations as well.

~~
"The world moves, and ideas that were once good are not always good. In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." - Dwight D. Eisenhower


Submitted by Stan Hebben on Sat, 2006-01-28 13:41.
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Controlling the troops yourself may be fun if you like it, but it would be nice to see the units doing something theirself.


Submitted by MadBoris on Sat, 2006-01-28 17:42.
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I'll be happy if they can just have excellent pathfinding and good AI as they move in formations from point A to Z. Something other RTS's have trouble with. Smiling

~~
"The world moves, and ideas that were once good are not always good. In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." - Dwight D. Eisenhower


Submitted by SethsMatches on Sat, 2006-01-28 11:45.
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I think aircraft will DEFINETLY be affected since the air they fly in will first be blasted outwards by the initial explosion and then RIPPED back to the epicenter again to fill the new massive area of low pressure.(Thats why the mushroom cloud forms). Fast planes would probably be clear of the area before they are hurled back but... I wonder if mid-air collisions are possible?

-----------------------------------------------------
In war its the victors who write the history books...


Submitted by thomcaster on Sat, 2006-01-28 13:27.
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Speaking of nukes affecting the air (SWEET! I can't wait to see that!) how about other wind patterns, like the jet stream or tornadoes?

Anyway, seeing aircraft get hit by some invisible shockwave moving outward from the epicenter of the nuke, the fast ones trembling as they scream away, the slow ones smashed and spiraling out of control, hitting units on the ground... Sweet.


Submitted by see_it_was_the_devil on Sun, 2006-01-29 05:48.
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I don't see CT going that far with the environmental conditions but it would be great to see planes doing spiral crashes and see ground units in the blast wave being thrown about before they either get vaporized or dammaged heavily.


Submitted by Inevitable on Mon, 2006-01-30 10:03.
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Not to get off topic here, but I feel that the nuke's cloud should last more than a few seconds after the blast. Give it like a minute or two. I think it would be interesting if the clould effected units LOS or movement speed while near the center of the cloud. Would this not be cool to see, or is it just me?

Anyway, nukes should indeed effect planes over a fairly big radius (that is if they don't out run the blast) and the damage should vary depending on how close you are; If your fighter is right in ground-zero, it simply is vapored whereas your bomber on the edge of the blast is tossed about some and damaged only slightly. This would make nukes slightly more versatile and pleasing to the eye (can't wait to use one on those pesky flying carriers Evil )


Submitted by Stan Hebben on Mon, 2006-01-30 10:11.
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Firing a nuke on a flying carrier? You'll need a fast nuke Smiling I wanna see that.


Submitted by KrogothKiller on Mon, 2006-01-30 10:25.
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Ah, but is the carrier going to be a cumbersome city-block full of nukes itself, or an elegant speedy flying wing from which planes disembark like butterflies from a flower?

Aside the point. The point I bring up is, the nature of the flying carrier, and of the nuke itself are a bit ambiguous. Let me correct that, the delivery of the nuke. I have to wonder if there's going to be more warning that TA or if it's going to be more speedy no-warning death.

...and if the carriers might not have anti-nukes built in. That might make sense; it would ensure that an area was contested only by conventional means without the necessity of advance-antinukebuilding-advance. Like the Scarab/Hedgehog (unsure on names).

I get the feeling, though, that nukes will be universally devastating considering the aircraft tactics this game will make possible; to do otherwise would make one strategy superior.

-KK


Submitted by Stan Hebben on Mon, 2006-01-30 10:53.
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I suppose aircraft carriers will be fast, they're aircraft after all. If they're too heavy to move fast, then they're too heavy to lift too. At least too fast to use a nuke Smiling

Concerning nukes, there might be different speeds. Maybe short-range tactical nukes can go faster...


Submitted by KrogothKiller on Mon, 2006-01-30 11:01.
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Ah, see I was considering the possibility of 'flying' possibly meaning more 'hovering with movement', but I suppose flying does imply speed.


Submitted by Inevitable on Mon, 2006-01-30 11:12.
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Quote:
Ah, see I was considering the possibility of 'flying' possibly meaning more 'hovering with movement', but I suppose flying does imply speed.
That's pretty much the way I pictured the flying carrier aswell. It would divert most of its energy to lift and only a little to horizontal movement. I don't think it will be speedy as far as planes go, but it will more than likely by faster than its water bound cousin.

Another concern of mine is whether or not submarines will be effected by nukes Puzzled . The first empire earth neglected this (probably on purpose) and really bothered me. Nukes should effect all planes of combat now. The only reason to inhibit them before was they couldn't really be shot down. Now that SupCom has anti-nuke systems, there is no reason to make nukes less than realistic in power if you ask me (an anti-nuke sub would be interesting).


Submitted by Stan Hebben on Mon, 2006-01-30 12:21.
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An antinuke sub - or underwater antinukes for your (underwater) base.


Submitted by Inevitable on Mon, 2006-01-30 13:07.
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Hey guys, check out something for me. Go to http://www.scfansite.com and tell me if I am imagining things. If you guys look closely at the screen with the two UEF battleships fighting off the Cybran fleet, tell if you see a freaking huge sub above the UEF battleship in the right. What the heck is it Jawdropping! Jawdropping! Jawdropping! ??? Its the size of a battleship; maybe a sub-carrier or a monster nuke sub? I don't think its a nuke sub because it looks a bit different than the one in the old screens from Gamespy. I am pretty sure that it's a sub carrier because... well see it for your self here:
http://www.jeux-strategie.com/upload/js/Terran_Submarine_Aircraft_Carrier.jpg

Sorry, I don't know how to make links!


Submitted by thomcaster on Mon, 2006-01-30 15:54.
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About nukes and carriers and such, there are more possibilities for the whole lot of it than have been done in the past. Nukes can be dropped in bombs and fired ICBM-style, yes, but the "nuke" part of it is simply the warhead. There is no reason why one couldn't be put in a missile chassis designed to shoot down aircraft, or in a torpedo, or an orbital bombardment.

Carriers are similar. A flying carrier would be AWESOME, but this has sorta already showed up and was shot down (heehee!) in the zeppelins post. Now, a non-zeppelin flying carrier is all well and good, but isn't it essentially the same thing? So we have monster flying aircraft carriers, monster anti-air weapons platforms with antinukes onboard, floating artillery bombard platforms, super heavy ground support platforms, whatever. And yes, aircraft carriers should be outfitted with an antinuke, or else have a ship (cruiser? specialized ship with antinuke lasers, missiles, and detection for nukes?) to put in their fleet. And there should be at least one land equivalent, and in addition, air units with the capability to shoot down nukes.


Submitted by No2117 on Tue, 2006-01-31 04:35.
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Inevitable wrote:
I don't know how to make links!

 

A tags arn't hard when you use them often enough. It's like tying your shoelaces, but simpler Open and close them with <angular> brackets.

 

 here's a demonstration using normal brackets

http://www.jeux-strategie.com/upload/js/Terran_Submarine_Aircraft_Carrier.jpg (a)http://www.jeux-strategie.com/upload/js/Terran_Submarine_Aircraft_Carrier.jpg(/a)

Look at this! The URL is different to the text

(a  href="http://www.jeux-strategie.com/upload/js/Terran_Submarine_Aircraft_Carrier.jpg")See?(/a)


Submitted by Inevitable on Tue, 2006-01-31 08:49.
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Thanks, No2117. This will be helpful. Anyway, what is your pic of Puzzled ? Is that a cake Laughing out loud ?


Submitted by No2117 on Thu, 2006-02-02 05:00.
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Yep, battenberg cake. It's a basic sponge cake, with half of the mixture having a colour added to it, then glued together with apricot jam and sealed with marzipan. Not ony are they a culinary delight, they're the engineers cake. Why? Because I like to cute them into strips, then cubes, using light green and dark green cubes. Then glue with blue apricot jam, and a layer of black/green marzipan. It's a 'borg'enberg cake which resitance is futile.

Aspell! A freeware spellchecker.


Submitted by Inevitable on Mon, 2006-02-06 09:55.
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Quote:
Yep, battenberg cake.
*Drools*


Submitted by Bass on Thu, 2006-03-02 14:27.
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In TA it was possible to hit planes, though the missle had to collide with the plane. I was amazed when, during a skirmish in TA, my nuke aimed at a instigator hit a plane above it and spared the cannon.


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